Integration and digitisation in architecture and construction with Lucy Homer, European Head of Integrated Solutions at Lendlease.

Join us on this month’s episode of Built Environment Matters as Lucy Homer, European Head of Integrated Solutions at Lendlease, discusses centralisation, the importance of teamwork, overcoming industry inefficiency, and how architects in our digital future could find themselves acting as artisan curators of standardised systems.

‘Developing technologies is easy, changing a business culture and an industry culture is the hard bit.’ - Lucy Homer

To learn more about Bryden Wood's Design to Value philosophy, visit www.brydenwood.com. You can also follow Bryden Wood on LinkedIn and X.

Transcript

Credits: 0:09

Hello, welcome to Built Environment Matters, a monthly podcast brought to you by Bryden Wood, an international company of technologists, designers, architects, engineers and analysts working for a better built environment Bryden Wood would believe in Design to Value to cut carbon drive efficiency, save time, make beautiful places and build a better future.

Paul O'Neill: 0:33

Hello, and welcome to this edition of Built Environment Matters the Bryden Wood podcast. I'm Paul O'Neill, Architectural Board Director at Bryden Wood. And this month, we're joined by Lucy Homer. Lucy is European Head of Integrated Solutions at Lendlease, a multinational construction property and infrastructure company. She has an industry leading team of globally connected experts whose aim is to promote unparalleled and industry leading opportunities to stay ahead of the curve and capitalise on project outcomes. This global group has been set up to drive productivity and efficiencies across the whole business, in conjunction with Lendlease's overall digital strategy, Lucy's intention is to collaborate across the global Lendlease business creating innovations especially around alternative materials supporting their sustainability agenda. She has a wide remit across the European region, with projects ranging in value from 20 million to 1.6 billion pounds. Lucy is also an active spokesperson for the industry, particularly when it comes to young recruits and female staff. Lucy won the Lifetime Achievement Award at the European Women in Construction and Engineering Awards in 2016. In 2018, she won the Lendlease global Employee Excellence Award for Diversity and Inclusion. Outside of work, Lucy is an abstract landscape painter, and has just moved house to a great two star listed property, which she is currently renovating, including a new art studio in an old dairy. Lucy, your current role is the Head of Integrated Solutions at Lendlease. And for people who don't know Lendlease, or yourself, could you tell us a little bit about your company, and also about your role there.

Lucy Homer: 2:17

I will try to keep that as succinct an answer as possible. Lendlease is a global organisation based in Australia. And it's an unusual organisation just in terms of what it covers. So there's a lot of contractor developers out there, and I'm sure that everyone is very aware of our competitors in that space. And not only the sort of multiplex types, the also Australian base, but many other people as well. And probably in the UK, it's more either contractors or developers that we would consider our competition. But unusually, the bit that sort of sets Lendlease apart, the bit that probably interests me a little bit more, as there's two other parts to Lendlease that people are perhaps aware of. So it's a major sort of part of the strategies that we also invest our own money. So a lot of our own developments are actually funded, mainly in part, usually about 50% through our own Lendlease capital. There is no other company that does, that's another company that has the investment side, the development side and the construction side, we also then do operate some of our buildings and precincts as well. And again, that's something else that sort of sets us apart. So we are the only company that we have seen long running sort of developer/contractor that really does truly have end to end engagement and buildings. And that sort of ties quite nicely into all the topics I know you'll want to talk about, which is really our overarching sort of digital strategy. So for those of you who do sort of follow such things, we you know, we have set up a digital business in Australia, which is called P odium. And that really is to take advantage because we have this competitive advantage of having the whole life cycle, what we're trying to do is to build either our own software and develop our own software to take advantage of that end to end lifecycle. So it is an unusual company. And it's much broader than perhaps what you sort of see if you work with this either as a developer client, or if you're, you know, if people are working with this sort of from an external construction perspective, we still do all the normal things, but we do lots of other things too. And perhaps those things we don't talk about quite as much as the more normal things. So Lendlease is based in Australia, but we also operate in America, Asia and in Europe. And we focus on gateway cities. So we have 15 identified gateway cities around the world. And that is part of our overall strategy which is about urban regeneration at scale. So in London that is focused around Elephant and Castle, IQL, which is the development which is just on the site of the old Olympic Park. And then the new things in the press that you will have read about Smithfield in Birmingham, Euston, High Road West, Thamesmead So all the things that are sort of coming up in London so we've got a significant pipeline in Europe and the other places we work in Europe are predominantly Italy at the moment. So we identified Milan as a gateway city. And so we were doing a huge amount of development work in Milan as well. So that was Lendlease, sorry, then you want me. Architect by background, as you said, and Paul and I went, I went to Sheffield, and I practised for, I think, probably 15 years as an architect, I saw BBC Broadcasting House, which is where the news comes from every night I worked originally for Richard McCormack, and McCormack Jones and Pritchard for five years, and then I was the only person when McCormack Jones and Pritchard were removed from that project. I then went and was the only person who finished the project working for Sheppard Robson who took over until I saw that project from planning all the way through to be the person that was embarrassingly having to curtsy on live BBC TV. So I am not scared of anything. This podcast is nothing you know, when you're when you're a BBC TV being presented to the queen as the architect of a building, and you've got to curtsy that's pretty scary stuff. That was 10 years of my life to the BBC huge portion of my career. And I suppose what I sort of thought was would you do after a building like that? So that yeah, that's a once in a lifetime opportunity. It was incredible. It saw me from assistant sort of architect all the way through to project director and it was awesome. I then was approached by as it was Bovis Lendlease several times to go over to work for them. And suddenly, they've been the contractor on the BBC. So I should say that I said no for about two years. And then the person who was heading up design management at that time, who had been in the job a long time actually decided to retire. And so at that point, I had another conversation. And I decided that if I was going to go and try it, it was good to go in and shape it to all I thought it could be and should be. And so I went in originally to look after London sort of design management for the construction business, we very quickly sort of took over everything in the UK. And then we started looking at how could we do this better. So one of the things I really missed what is I think, quite interesting about Bryden Wood is I always really miss not having a set of consultants around me, you know, I the BBC was, we had 36 consultants, it's not all about architects. And I really missed having those sort of people that I would call regularly and just sort of ask, you know, I don't know what to do here, what you know, whether it's building services, whether it's structure, you know, I have a general overview, but I don't know the details. So I sort of set about building a design and technical team, the only other sort of model there was was Laing O'Rourke doing something sort of similar. And I, we built a design technical team in the construction business, which was massively successful, and really did help turn that business around, in my view. And then integrated solutions was sort of set up pretty much on the back of that T&T sort of model. But the critical thing was that we not only put in other disciplines, which I'll talk about in a sec, but also I insisted that it sat outside of construction. And the reason for that is that sitting within construction, we could only support construction independently, we've now been moved out of construction, which means that we can support development and our investment management business, as well as construction in a completely independent way. And that that's really important, the more you start thinking about the digital future, because it obviously, there's going to be much more front end work for anything that's going to be our own development work. But it also means that we're not tied into the old methods of construction. The other things that we added in when we did integrated solutions is we added in planning, planning and scheduling, cost planning, quality digital actually looked after. So a lot of the traditional things that had sat within the business, I mean, the most controversial two are planning and scheduling and cost planning because they'd both been very much in the heart of the construction business. But what it's done by having those taken out of the construction businesses has meant we've been able to digitise things much quicker. And that centralization of everything, which I'm very keen on, because I'm very keen on digitalization is allowing us to move at a much quicker pace. And when we're developing software, either internally or externally, we're able to do that quicker because we control everything within the business. So I also from a business perspective, patrol technology and business as well. I say that in every like Machiavellian way. It's not it really isn't. It really isn't like that. But I mean, as you guys know, if you've got no control, you can't change anything. So yeah, it's more about control, maybe in a machiavellian way, but I try not to think about it like that.

Paul O'Neill: 9:46

Yeah. So control and integration, I would say. So as you mentioned, architect by training, we went to university together and I think you introduced me to Wallpaper magazine, if you remember sat on one of the sofas in the studios. I always remember that and so I'm an architect, I have had, I guess, quite a traditional career as an architect, but in may be a slightly different type of architectural and engineering practices. So you touched on it. So what drove you to move from the architectural role in an architectural practice? And did you always think that that was going to be a possibility in your career to move to a company like Lendlease, I never thought I would end up working essentially, for a client that, you know, probably isn't something, I didn't have a career plan as such. So it probably wasn't, it wasn't I discounted, it's just like the point never really thought about it. I remember being very, very nervous about doing it and seeking lots of counsel, which everybody should do. By the way, if you're ever thinking about changing, it's always good to ask other people's opinions and not rely on your own. And probably the turning point for me was actually and I won't share which particular practice it was. But I went in to interview to run a very large project, which was the other large project in London, pretty much as the BBC was finishing because I thought that was what I wanted to do. And I remember sort of walking in and having a chat with the partners in the practice. And it was a sort of very similar practice to how MJP was before I left, and I just was like, I can't possibly do all this again, I can't, I don't want to take you know, another project and sort of teach them how to run a big project. And the standout moment for me was when the architecture director was sort of like, we got to do all the stagey drawings, or stage four drawings, but it wasn't the best stages of work. But you know, we've got to do all these detailed drawings. And I'm like, why, you know, the subcontractors are going to do far better drawings you're ever going to do, and having to have that conversation at a very well respected architecture practice, you know, sort of, you know, in everyone's top 10 to go work for, I was like, you just don't understand the industry, you don't actually understand how it works, you don't understand that every time you draw a facade, a subcontractor is going to redraw it, he's going to redraw it better than you. And it was that inefficiency in the overall industry. That just drives me insane. I'm like, Why does an architect design it once then a subcontractor come in design it again, that's just bonkers. And so that probably was a pivotal moment for me, where I sort of realised that I wanted to make the industry better. And probably the only way I was going to do that was was moving to a sort of contractor, client side, I mean, to be honest, even at the time, I thought I was just going to work for a contractor, I hadn't realised, and I sort of Lendlease don't sort of talk about with other great stuff that they do. And at that time, they were very small developer in London. And so the opportunity when I actually got there was vast, although I did think that I was going to work just for inverted commas for a'contractor, ' but it was the opportunity to be the person in the business that knew about design knew about how the design industry worked, and then be able to shape it across the business. That was the attraction for me. And Lendlease is the sort of place where if you have a good idea, and you're, you know, self starter, they'll just let you get on with it. So I've never had any barriers put in, and we've done it, there's always more to do. But we've done a lot already. And I've learned a lot. And I I never thought, you know, I'd like to think that architects, especially ones that think they work in big practices, you know, working in a corporate company is eye opening, there's like a whole world of the world that there that we just don't know about as architects, which I I've personally found fascinating to the, you know, perhaps more sort of people and culture perspective than, than anything else, I've learned a hell of a lot. And I've learned a lot about myself, my own leadership style, you know, they do really invest in you as a leader, and as a person, and all that stuff. You, you just don't get it in architecture practice. So it's been great for me personally. So I think you'd probably say yes, do you think it's helpful for architects to work within construction and development companies, I think you just touched on then in there'll be able to understand more about that said, the intelligence in the supply chain are not only what a main contractor can give, but all of their subcontractors and what they can give early on maybe in the design, if they have access to them. So would you like to see more architects around you? And in that side of the business?

Lucy Homer: 14:06

I think if and I'm sure we'll come to some of these sort of broader questions, but I think if the architecture industry is going to survive, I think I'll get a bit controversiality in there pretty early on, if it's going to survive, I think it has to, and I think when people do come in, and they work as a design manager, that first year, people just like if you're interested in how it all really works. I mean, it doesn't work in any way, like people think it does. And that it even to the reality of the understanding of how an architect is seen by a client or a contractor. That level of standing is just not in the same place that it used to be at all and I find that really worrying and I think the more architects that can understand, the better. I was always really lucky. I mean, in my very first job I was based on site so I've always been around the reality of how it actually works? And but so many people don't get that opportunity to see that. And I, you know, to me architecture is about teamwork. And if I were having a brief discussion over architectural education, it the biggest thing you were taught as an as an architecture student is that you stand up, can you do a crit in a room, and it's all about your work. I've never done that, in a 25 year career, architecture is about teamwork. It's about leading and being a design team leader. And whether it's managing on the BBC, I managed a team of sort of between 30 and 100 people day to day, but then you're also managing a wider design team of 36, consultants, you've all got a team of 50 people. And so the job is about people in reality, and then when you start thinking about how many contractors you're working with, and how many subcontractors you're working with, and it just goes on and on and on. And it's all about communication. And the biggest thing about what my original team so I mean, I'll tell everyone a much bigger team that the design managers, most of what they do is actually a sort of an interpretation between what does a subcontractor want and need to know whether it's in a drawing form, or whether it's sort of translating the design language that an architect is speaking into a real language and someone else can understand it is an interpreter that, you know, and it's crazy that our industry needs that, because we're all just building buildings.

Paul O'Neill: 16:22

And it wasn't that role was that there wasn't a design manager role. I think when we started our careers, as I remember, it was just happening at that point. So you're touching on some big points here. So the way that the sector is set up, you know, the commercial arrangements or spread of risk, the separation of roles? And how would you change that? Do you think current setup is good for the built environment? How do you feel that it's evolving? How would you see it changing now and in the future,

Lucy Homer: 16:46

So I think it's goin g to change massively. I'll own that rather than worrying about all the problems. A lot of what our digital strategy, and I'll talk about digitization, because a lot of what we've had conversations about this in the past is the digital side of the industry future is actually the easy bit. And I say this quite a lot, internally. Developing technologies is easy, changing a business culture and an industry culture is the hard bit. So you know, how do you go about doing that? And it's going to take years, it took years in the airline industry, car manufacturing, etc. it's years. And I think it's interesting to go back and read some of those case studies. But yeah, the reality is at Lendlease, we're probably two or three years into what will be a 25 year Change plan, the internal marketing around Podium, everyone thought that, you know, it's definitely gonna be here within three years. And, you know, I became a bit of a sort of like, a naysayer like, but like it's not, you can't change things that quickly, but a concentration for us on working with the supply chain early doors, so partnerships with our key supply chain members, ideally, global players, getting them to be the people that are essentially drawing their components, whether it's a window, whether it's a structural component, there's subcontractors and the supply chain, owning that element for us, and that be inputted directly into models, that's probably the one thing that really unlocks it for us. In order to do that we have to concentrate on standardisation, obviously, although I'll talk about that in a minute. But that's what we're concentrating on. So we're concentrating on software, you know, sort of obviously, but the other big piece is the procurement supply chain. And we're doing that at a global level. So probably the people that we've talked about most externally is Stora Enso, is the reason we sort of went to the Stora Enso. And so first for those who don't know, that's a laminated timber supplier, is because we built a lot of buildings in Australia with laminated timber, we had a whole timber department. So that was a very easy thing for us to standardise initially, but we have a global framework deal with Stora Enso. And we, you know, we will develop as many of our buildings through that framework using that structural system that we've developed with them. And I think that is the one thing that you will unlock. And I say one thing, because it's really easy, that that's really hard, right? Really, really, really hard. And it'll get there but it will take years. And that's one of the reasons where I sort of go that's where architects need to be thinking about what their role is in the future. Because if you're automating, you know, we've already seen that you I think you guys developed one of the apps for developing master plans automatically that that stuff's really easy, right? generative design, really straightforward, really easy. The difficult bit to crack is the supply chain piece. But it will take a company like ours though it might not be us, there are many people out there trying the same thing. If you get those two things together, then I think architects have to think about what is their role in the more digitised to get what is the architects role gonna be and one of the sort of things I've written about this on my LinkedIn blog, which I advise you to look at, but I haven't written one in about 18 months, it's probably not worth it. The, the is one of the things I think that will happen, the more digitised and this this isn't, this is sort of viewed as just about our industry, it's actually a sort of more of a sort of general held belief I have, the more computers are able to generate and do stuff, actually, what you need is you need true artisans, who were then able to sort of look through what is being produced to actually pick out the true art. And I think if architects start thinking about themselves as curators of a supply chain, standardised systems rather than as having to design everything bespoke every time, then the industry would be able to move forward. And the reason I sort of say curation is, in reality, that's what actually happens today, it's just that if you don't understand how the construction industry portion work, you know, you people don't necessarily realise that actually, you know, a Schneider or, as you saw this example, because I think it's the best, you know, there are two, you're using their own standard systems already, then they're adapting that to what the architecture is designed. But an architect hasn't necessarily started from what the systems are that are available. And so there are ways that architects can start thinking in this way, it's just that we very rarely see it in the reason I can talk about the whole industry is because, you know, we work with a lot of people. So we see how the industry is performing. So generally.

Paul O'Neill: 21:31

Excellent. So we're really interested in this, as you know, you could set up a system where you can automate all of say, the detailed design, and you have your platform system, your off site system, which is many different iterations to suit the different sector or building type. And then the architect can concentrate on what we call the external architecture, the exterior architecture, we're not just talking about the facade or the look and feel, but also the context and the placemaking. So that, you know, use all of their skills there rather than one office, you know, down the road, doing details for a certain construction system, or solution, and then another office doing exactly the same but slightly different and on large programmes, obviously, that pays dividends in terms of the efficiency and you get the best value out with regard to the way that we build and you touched on standardisation. Where do you see or what are the most promising directions of the future of construction with digital and you know, as we just said, then digital techniques, solutions underpinning everything. But what about MMC, off site, modular platform solutions that we're creating? How do you see what direction does that going?

Lucy Homer: 22:36

Well, I have slightly uh. I don't know how controversial they are... as views, but MMC really winds me up, and it winds me up. Because anybody that talks about something as being modern, that's actually been around for over, you know, 120 years, just irritates me that the first prefab house was 1906, I believe. So it's not like this stuff is new. And my personal view, and it's my personal view, sort of rather than Lendlease view, is that you don't, you know, why does it need to be delivered off site. So I think that the building sites of the future will be automated, and they will be fully digital, but they'll also be constructed in situ. And the main reason for that is I don't think anybody has solved the transportation issues, to get large pieces of stuff for want of a better word prefabricated to site is just crazy. Why would you create a huge factory building to build another building inside it to then transport it somewhere? And that sort of certainly internally at Lendlease is quite a controversial view. But it just makes no logical sense to me. And do I think there'll be robots just that, you know, I do think there will I think there are lots of things that the that can be automated in in that way. I don't think that's a problem. But I think that the building site of the future is essentially creating a factory environment or a building site. So it's no longer a building site, you know, and I, I think that's pretty simple to do. I think it just requires thinking about it in a different way. And the only way that works is before you put a spade in the ground. And again, looking at some of the precedents in manufacturing, is everything needs to be signed off before you start construction work. So before you put a spade in the ground, there needs to be an actual sign off, not a sort of normal, rubbishy construction, well, it's fine, we'll just change it all later, every drawing gets signed off every programme, your quality plan, everything is signed off, and it's all signed up digitally. Obviously, everything is built in the digital twin and you've built it all beforehand. And then you go ahead and construct it in reality, and again, that sounds really simple, but that is not, you know, design and build is a construct. I don't if it was invented by Lendlease in Australia, but certainly in Australia, our company was the first to do it. What that's allowed is an overlap between the design and build process. And what I think needs to happen is those two things need to be separated again, so that you design, you plan, you get it perfect, you stop. Is it all? Okay? Yes, now you build it and separate it, rather than try and overlap it.

Paul O'Neill: 25:22

I think you just touched on something, there is logistics as well, logistics and construction, because we want to factor that in and really understand your logistical strategies, then you can plan everything and know what you can bring to site which may be pre manufactured, and what you actually need to manufacture on site in your on site factory. And we've looked at a number of projects, our main thing, when we look at projects is what's going to deliver the best value for the project. And some projects won't be able to have the physical space, maybe for an onsite factory, or an automated line. But a lot of projects, particularly the larger projects will have those opportunities, those large scale programmes, whether it's the hospitals programme, whether it's transportation programme, whether it's King's Cross in London, you know, they could have had that because they've got the space to look at that. And it just ties in the logistics of actually delivering things to site to the site logistics as well. And the automation and the robotics on site.

Lucy Homer: 26:15

One of the ways I always talk about things, I think people don't really overcomplicate buildings. And, you know, although we are going down the route of sort of buildings or factories on the site, I also don't think you need to do that. So I think there will be a place for that if you you know, as you quite rightly say, if there is the space for it, etc. But I'm talking about the actual building site being the factory. So an example I quite often refer back to is just because it's simple. In a building a building is different to building a shed. In reality, it's just slightly more complicated. And if someone gives you a kit of parts, you construct your shed, you know, on a concrete base that you've laid, and I think it's how do you apply that to a building on a bigger scale? And I think that's entirely feasible, because not everybody will have the room to do a sort of factory based on site. And I don't think you need to, I think it's more about the components turning up and how you put them together. And thinking much more about it as a sort of Lego approach.

Paul O'Neill: 27:11

Just moving the conversation on the construction playbook, which came out in 2020 talks about the importance of promoting SMEs. So the smaller players in the sector, do you think a business like Lendlease could benefit from that vision? And how can they benefit

Lucy Homer: 27:28

when you because there's always a terminology thing when you're talking SMEs? Are you really talking to subcontractor supply chain members or are you talking about a smaller main contractors just to make sure we're talking about the same thing?

Paul O'Neill: 27:44

Yeah, I think both really seeing maybe the more agile smaller contractors, but also your supply chain, the smaller companies within your supply chain, and consultants, of course, who tend to be slightly smaller, obviously, than the large construction companies.

Lucy Homer: 27:59

Everybody's important, right? Because I've been I've talked about collaboration already, the supply chain, in terms of the subcontractors we know where we're buying things from is critical. It's critical, not only for delivering a project today, but also as you think about the digital future. So massively important in terms of smaller main contractors. And, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if the answer comes from one of those, because I just think that they're able to be a lot more agile. And you talked about sort of trying to get a company like Lendlease, to change the way thinks when it's been in construction for decades, that's really hard. So if you get the right company, at a much smaller scale, it'll be much easier into about consultant I think it you know, see this yourselves, but then there's other people doing interesting things as well. I think the change could come from anywhere. In reality, it needs to come from everywhere. But the problem is, I think that's probably just too hard. So, in the heart of hearts, I think it will probably come from a smaller player who I think will blow up very, very quickly, it will scale up very quickly. If someone's smart, you know, if there's someone really smart at the helm, but one of the reasons I'm still at Lendlease is because I do sort of see that the opportunity for us because we have this whole lifecycle that's the problem is getting the whole lifecycle is getting the investment through to the occupancy. And there's no one else that can do that yet. The other people that may crack it that is someone like Google, we're working with Google on their development stuff in San Fran, and someone like that could crack it. But yeah, the industry is complicated and it is how the money works. That's the really complicated bit and it's so tied into the risks and when you think about it GDP terms it's a massive it's a vast that I think that's why it's never you know, it makes money so therefore people don't need to find a smarter way to make money if I'm you know, liberal about it. Yeah, I think is interesting, but yeah, baby Everyone has their part to play. I don't know if I answered that very well, but

Paul O'Neill: 30:04

you did. There are companies obviously talked about logistics like Amazon, surely they can contribute to the efficiency of the construction industry in terms of logistics and programming surely, and using all of the, you know, the digital platforms, basically coming back to digital, you know, the digital platforms that are created, which has completely changed, say, deliveries and logistical systems in the last five years, 10 years, and then 15 and 20 years, that change in that industry surely can come into the construction industry.

Lucy Homer: 30:32

And I think is really important. And I think as an industry, I think we're pretty poor at this. But you know, anytime that we're developing new technology we were looking at, so we were looking at some construction, logistic stops, sort of couple of years ago, and we were sort of decided to focus on something else at the moment. But we went out and we talked to some retail logistics companies, because the reality is, is that your deliveries, delivery doesn't matter whether you're delivering building policy or delivery, you know, apples is still delivery. And I think there's so much to learn from other industries. And I just think, as an overall property industry, I think we're pretty arrogant. And we look outside, see how other people have solved stuff. Even simple things like how the car industry, you know, do their digitalization had the airline industry do there's, you know, a lot of people talk a lot of rhetoric, but they haven't actually gotten found out how to do it, they might have read, you know, one page article on LinkedIn, and then they become an expert, you know, but the reality of what actually happened that yeah, that's it, I think it does come down to arrogance and ego that,

Paul O'Neill: 31:30

can I very quickly, just touch on and talk about your love of painting. As you know, I see all of your wonderful posts on Instagram, where you saying about the positivity and responding to the world with pure colour and deliberate mark making, which I find is wonderful. It's been an inspiration, I think, to my daughter, who's painting and sort of all of the colours in one of your landscape pieces. Can you tell us a little bit about that work? And would you ever consider yourself or consider being a full time painter?

Lucy Homer: 31:59

Well, depending on who's gonna listen. So the dream is to be a full time painter, I always wanted to be a painter. And my parents thought that being an architect was a much more sensible profession and a career choice. I always knew that I would go back to painting, I didn't pick up a paintbrush from the age of 18. Until about two years ago, and one of the benefits of working at Lendlease has actually been for me, because I'm much less creative. Now in my day to day job, it's actually allowed me to be much freer, and to be able to start painting again, my original plan was always to sort of retire early, and then start painting. And the reason I sort of restarted a couple of years ago is I had a fairly major operation, which just maybe sort of made me look at my life and just sort of go what, you know, why am I waiting for something that I want to do? Even though even though quite arrogantly hadn't picked up a paintbrush? I didn't really know if I was any good or not. But I think that COVID For a lot of people has allowed people to sort of look at their lives and just sort of go, you know, what choices? Am I making? What's important to me? What do I want to do? And so, so for me, that's been, you know, I don't have any intention of giving up work yet. But I work very hard at my painting at weekends, and in any spare time, and I'd love to, certainly twin track careers for a while. And then if you know, financially able, you know, I'd love to do it full time. Absolutely. In terms of my actual painting, or very kind words, in reality, I paint intuitively, I think the architectural background is interesting, because it gives me perhaps a different sense on things like perspective, I have spoken a little bit about sort of breaking free of very rigid black and white lines that you sort of, you know, surrounded by as an architect and plans, I think, sort of love of pure white surfaces, which comes from sort of handling paper, and has sort of meant that my paintings have a pure white background, that the paint marks they are bright colours. And I believe that it's always a little reaction against years of black and white, and then then very gestural movement. So you know, none of this sort of like ruler and pen malarkey is very much like what do you instinctively make, rather than controlling something? So there's all very uncontrolled and everything is a response to the natural world around me I'm very interested in the natural world and recording that in the way that I see it. I have no interest in drawing buildings at all. I am interested though, in the marks that people make on the landscape. So paths hedges, sort of how we control nature, either intentionally or unintentionally that does interest me and yeah, I absolutely love it. You know it. I think having I've been speaking about this a little bit at work internally, I think having a hobby which I think has always been frowned upon, sort of corporately speaking actually makes you a better employee, because you have an outlet of something you're completely passionate about. I mean, I am like the most driven person in the world. And I'm probably a really irritating employee. And I've got to an executive level in a big corporate company. And you know, happy day means that I always want more, having an outlet allows me to channel that sort of drive into something creative, rather than channelling it into work. And you know, I still give, I still get work 100%. But I'm not constantly striving for what's the next promotion, I don't need to be CEO anymore. It's allowed me to sort of drive to things but not have to drive myself because I'm doing that in a different way. Now, if that makes sense, I advocate all my staff, I advocate, they do stuff outside of work, I think it's really important,

Paul O'Neill: 35:50

because it's part of the well being, and definitely the love of painting definitely comes across from all of your posts on Instagram, which is fascinating.

Lucy Homer: 36:01

Give a plug for my Instagram, at Lucy Homer Jones, just in case anyone wants to follow, therefore, Instagram,

Paul O'Neill: 36:09

and interesting. It's not just pictures, you explain the series as well, that you're going to concentrate on, which is really good.

Lucy Homer: 36:15

I was actually talking about that song the other day. I think that's an architectural thing. So I think it's really important to explain the process. And I think a lot of artists don't do that. And I is actually the bit that I'm always really interested in what's behind the painting. So I deliberately do that I deliberately explain it. It really helps.

Paul O'Neill: 36:35

Right, finally, back to the built environment. We asked this question to everyone, how optimistic are you about the future of our sector?

Lucy Homer: 36:43

I'm very optimistic about the and I've sort of said this already. I'm very optimistic about the industry as a whole. And I do think it will get there. I just don't know if consultants will be part of that. And I think that consultants generally need to really think about what their part is going to be in the future because I think if they're not careful, they won't exist. Not you guys obviously, you'll be fine.

Paul O'Neill: 37:10

Yes, I think everybody's got to evolve and respond

Lucy Homer: 37:14

is quite a serious point. But I think the people that I really worried about other medium size consultancy practices and I mean that across the board, it's not just architects it's all of them. I think the big multi discies will survive, and I think small niche practices this will survive, but I think the medium sized practices will struggle.

Paul O'Neill: 37:33

Lucy, it's been fantastic talking to you. It's been a great conversation. Thank you for joining us.

Lucy Homer: 37:38

It's my pleasure. Have a good day everyone.

Paul O'Neill: 37:40

Thank you for listening to this edition of Built Environment Matters. Please join us again next time.

Credits: 37:48

Thank you for listening to Built Environment Matters. A podcast brought to you by Bryden Wood. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your favourite podcast. And you can follow Bryden Wood on LinkedIn and Twitter.